Doom3 + Voodoo2_Patch_v1_0

[dborca]

Originally posted by sirkoz

Originally posted by dborca
....there are a few things of real value: dot3, cubemap, hw TCL springs to mind.....

...as someone said, here, on this forum: we would have had Voodoo7 Nitro these days, doomed to compete with today's low-end cards. puh-lease!

Now that is just ludicrous, dborca.

nope, it's not, sirkoz.

3dfx would have to support all those features, if they were to make a DX8 card and they did support it - in Rampage.

really? boy, do i love fanbois...

rampage was too late. 3dfx began loosing it when they released V3 (despite being a wonderful card, it lacked a few serious features)

and rampage was nowhere near a finished product. there is only one working card, and that one needs a clamp to affix the chip tightly to the board to prevent it from burning out. on a deeper thought, this could also mean that 3dfx would have to rework the whole chip. not mentioning that, for its time, rampage was not a killer card.

last, but not least... if the nextgen card was just around the corner, why did 3dfx surrender so easily?

perhaps some people is puzzled as why do i criticize 3dfx, me being the mesafx maintainer/developer. the answer is: why not?

[perer]

That's right 3Dfx is DEAD. We are just maintaning drivers here, and trying to get the best performance. Okay most of us are still collectors. But I must admit 3Dfx made BIG mistakes, called Banshee and Rush. Especially Banshee slowed down the entire Rampage development. Rampage was supposed to be released when the VSA-100 was released. We now can only guess what could have been, if they didn't made these mistakes. Offcourse 3Dfx suffered from bad management etc, that should not be forgotten also.

[Voodoo5]

Yep, 3dfx's management made some really bad business decisions starting around 1997/98:

1) Trying to milk the voodoo technology/architecture for all it was worth, instead of taking the position of being the premier leader at implementing new features and technology (full AGP compliance, 32 bit color, hardware TnL, etc.).

2) Changing their business model from developing and selling chips to well established 3rd party customers (Creative, Diamond, etc), to deciding to manufacture/produce their own branded boards (STB Systems acquistion for 140 million dollars).
* Another very undesireable side effect of the STB acquisition (besides putting them 140 million in the red) was that it put them even further behind in the technology race by causing major product release delays.

3) The arrogance/ignorance of thinking that the 3dfx brand name/ customer loyalty and the Glide API could sustain the company indefinately.

I also agree with dborca's statement that the Rampage chip/technology was not going to be the "next big thing", or else:

1) 3dfx would have not packed it in so quickly (no attempt's at restructuring/cutbacks and I've also read there was lavish spending and hiring right to the end).

2) Nvidia would have used/persued it further.

3dfx started out as the undisputed leaders of pc graphic technology with the Voodoo 1 & 2, if it were not for this dramatic leap in technology at that time and the competition that it bred, I believe we would not be were we are at today

I still find it hard to believe that a company who had such a tremendous initial advantage over it's closest competitor's let it all slip away

[sirkoz]

dborca - you can complain all you want and call me a "fanboi" - the thing is - my post said this ---> There could not have been a DX8 card without your aforementioned features. No?

[dborca]

Originally posted by sirkoz

dborca - you can complain all you want and call me a "fanboi" - the thing is - my post said this ---> There could not have been a DX8 card without your aforementioned features. No?

dude, get a grip.

let's take it slowly this time:
first, dborca sez:

Originally posted by sirkoz

we would have had Voodoo7 Nitro these days, doomed to compete with today's low-end cards. puh-lease!

next, sirkoz sez:

Originally posted by sirkoz

Now that is just ludicrous, dborca.
3dfx would have to support all those features, if they were to make a DX8 card and they did support it - in Rampage.

now this is interesting, since having a DX8 card doesn't mean it is not doomed to compete with low-end cards. there has to be a bottom and that bottom would have been the Voodoo7. not mentioning that, i am talking about the bad things that were about to come, you were talking about the good things that were supposed to come.

that is, <quote>IF they were to make a DX8 card</quote>

[sirkoz]

Stop writing non-sense and explain my post to yourself instead. Do you really think 3dfx was going to stay that reluctant to implement new features? They expressed a strong intentions for DX and OGL, though only at the end...
Although all of this is off-topic anyway.

[dborca]

Originally posted by sirkoz

Stop writing non-sense and explain my post to yourself instead.

you really had problems reading my posts in the past, and you really have problems now. i shouldn't bother with you anymore. hehe. but it's fun...

*humble apologies for the other guys who got the sense of my post: i HAVE to insist*

Do you really think 3dfx was going to stay that reluctant to implement new features?

yes. YES. YES! that's exactly what i am saying. god, finally!!! oh, wait... not "reluctant", i'd say I-N-C-A-P-A-B-L-E!

They expressed a strong intentions for DX and OGL, though only at the end...

hell is also paved with good intentions, but that doesn't do any good.

hint: what might seem nonsense to you may still make sense, but it takes a small intellectual effort!

[gdonovan]

last, but not least... if the nextgen card was just around the corner, why did 3dfx surrender so easily?

Maybe they were well paid to do so ;-)

I'll have to try running Doom3 on Mercury and see what it looks like- Any problems running under NT4?

[dborca]

Originally posted by gdonovan

last, but not least... if the nextgen card was just around the corner, why did 3dfx surrender so easily?

Maybe they were well paid to do so ;-)

yes! very, very likely!

[sirkoz]

What, I-N-C-A-P-A-B-L-E of implementing new features, dborca?!!
What are you basing this on, just lack of few new features in Voodoo5?
I really didn't know that, so you're saying they just hit the wall and surrendered, i.e. they said they got enough of the graphics business - let's do something else? Is that what you're saying, because it's quite shocking to all (ex-)3dfx fans, I'm sure. Though that cheap "merger" also gets kind of explained this way....

[gdonovan]

Originally posted by sirkoz

What, I-N-C-A-P-A-B-L-E of implementing new features, dborca?!!

Actually if you look at Voodoo Graphics, Banshee, Voodoo II and Voodoo III you will see with the exception of the 2D core added to Banshee that they are all the same.

A Voodoo II is nothing but an Obsidain 50SB-4440 with a die shrink and faster ram, a Voodoo 3 is nothing but that with a die shrink, unified ram and 2D banshee core tossed in.

[dborca]

Originally posted by gdonovan

Originally posted by sirkoz

What, I-N-C-A-P-A-B-L-E of implementing new features, dborca?!!

Actually if you look at Voodoo Graphics, Banshee, Voodoo II and Voodoo III you will see with the exception of the 2D core added to Banshee that they are all the same.

A Voodoo II is nothing but an Obsidain 50SB-4440 with a die shrink and faster ram, a Voodoo 3 is nothing but that with a die shrink, unified ram and 2D banshee core tossed in.

amen!

@sirkoz
i do know a tiny bit more than you about the internal guts of those chips, don't you think?

[gdonovan]

I like 3dfx as much as the next guy (well perhaps a bit more, how many people have a running Mercury rig in the original Quantum3D rack-mount case? And building another?) but that still doesn't change the fact 3dfx rested on their butt in 1998 with the release of Voodoo II when they should have been pressing ahead to keep Nvidia off balance.

[agrelaphon]

gdonovan, don't forget the post filter circuitry that made banshee's (and V3's) superb picture quality

[perer]

And they made the banshee, and started the Rampage project. That Banshee strangely slowed down the whole Rampage project. And the purchase of STB didn't made things easy. Because they also where dependant of STB. Whell perhaps they could have worked harder. But do YOU know what exactly they did at 3dfx in 1998?